This story seems like bullshit. Feb 5, - 1: Yes, it is possible to start off at one of these firms and later trade at either an IB or a HF. Jan 7, - These figures are given to the Indeed users for the purpose of generalized comparison only. I'd be perfectly content making k long-term if I enjoy it.
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6 All Electronic Trading
There are just so many shops and no info. I have learned a lot about prop shops in the past few days but STILL have not found any answers to compensation. Do the top prop shops have higher paid traders than traders at banks on average? Which has greater upside? Also, is it correct to say that hedge funds do not pick up market makers?
So if you start work at SIG you will always be a market maker at a prop shop? DRW is the same situation but in an earlier phase. CTC is the only traditional type market maker usually referenced in the top 3 best. I don't appreciate the ad hominem but I don't disagree with the root of your argument; CTC is one of the best-in-breeds, I just wanted people to hear the other side of the coin.
I thought a lot of people were selling them short in terms of dominance over the equities space. Keep in mind the context of my entire post as I wanted to emphasize that the points made back long ago were a little cooky. Thanks again for the commentary. Then who do you think are other 2? This story seems like bullshit. Jump does not hire discretionary traders to sit in front of a computer and start clicking with their mouse. They hire gifted programmers who will write sophisticated algorithms.
To clear up and I never hide this information. I am not at a prop shop or bank. You can take my comments with a grain of salt all you want but I dont give out wrong information. I know too many traders that are making retarded amounts of money right now to argue with the children on wso. I offer my perspective and the truth, nothing less.
Your comments seem to conclude you do not believe directional bets work, you are wrong and I wont bother to explain why. Markets are not efficient there are so many inefficiencies out there and you only need one to make money. But seriously, all the prop guys I know are having record years, and the banks are going to reduce bonus' substantially Yeah, sorry im a bit biased. So this is your thesis for successful prop? I know just as many people who are making money as those who are blowing up. Seriously though, I've found that people on this site get so worked up over these methodological pissing contests.
In my opinion, the glory days of trading at public companies or increasingly handicapped HFs banned short selling, less than accommodating prime brokerage, increased government scrutiny, investors fed up with exorbitant fees are behind us. Buzzy Schwartz has always maintained that the bank trading model was fatally flawed and running money for others is a huge pain, thus he went on his own.
Judging from the resume's my shop has been receiving over the past few weeks, I'd say that even those with a coveted analyst spot at a BB are looking for a more meritocratic compensation system moving forward. Why do most people want to be traders? Because we all fancy ourselves as having the special sauce that will lead us to unlimited earnings power. In reality, this is clearly naive, thus people look for shops that have proven strategies that make it easier to succeed thus this list is helpful.
As an aside, I'm not sure of Infinium's wheat strategy, but I'm pretty sure that since the CME changed the grain allocation rules, the glory days of that trade might be fading away as well.
I just think it's very difficult to go right now the list and say 1,2,3. But these are all good firms I don't dispute that. For anyone looking for a job let me list some more very good firms to check out.
My area of interest is prop equity trading. I am able to compare prop equity at banks to prop equity at a prop shop. Outside of that I really dont know nearly as much about how things work. The simple answer to comp is this: People do not start out at these firms for the starting salary. Over the short run for average to above average traders at a firm with winning strategies, prop trading wins hands down. The lifecycle of a prop trader is probably around 10 years I have heard that several guys at Ronin had million dollar days last Friday although this could just be rumor.
What I have found is that most WSO posters are either a still in college and base their opinions on corporate recruiting events or b thinking about BB banks in the context of payouts. Perceived prestige is still in the front of many minds and their eyes are off the prize. Why is the average life of a trader only 10 years? Do they leave because of stress? Or do they pretty much meet all of their financial goals by 10 years and decide to walk away?
Or is there a particular component like dealing with stress that younger traders have - which makes them better traders - that older traders don't have? Thanks Trig What I have found is that most WSO posters are either a still in college and base their opinions on corporate recruiting events or b thinking about BB banks in the context of payouts. TraderJoe, thank you for entirely upping to caliber of this discussion and giving us some real perspective from someone who knows people at most of these firms.
The reason for my earlier disagreements was a mere summer in Chicago at one of the firms mentioned here, and, as you might guess, my perspective is limited by experience.
I agree with everything that TraderJoe has said, and also Trig's explanation for the dearth of older traders in this business. At my Group you did not see old guys getting stressed out and quitting or blowing up, you saw new guys not being able to hack it and never being given a real opportunity TO trade, and old guys going back for their MBAs or retiring.
I do think some guys were bored of the same old routine, which, as a young gun myself, I too find hard to believe, but that seems understanding--especially if they are plateaued at a level where they are trading well but not fantastically--something pretty common in market making I think.
If there was one of these places in Chicago that you guys would say stands out, what would it be and why? I'm having issues understanding the following-. A How did Spot make it to the top of your list? C How did Infinium make it on your list period? Read about them in the September issue of Trader Monthly. Tower Hill doesn't even pay a salary - why are they on here? You must still be in college because I don't get how you can say that you've interviewed at all of these places yet rationalize those rankings.
Spot is good, but 1?? SIG is incredibly good, and Infinium doesn't do anything special at all. Here is how I would shape up a top 10 list, and I did this based off of firms globally, since the best firm is in NYC , not Chicago. Pure spec on my part: It is what it is. I'd say that very few people have the stamina to stay fully committed to this industry over longer time horizons. The weaker performers get eliminated, the stronger performers reach a limit of diminishing satisfaction, and the truly addicted make a career out of it.
At some point, people have to make a decision what is best for their particular situation. In my mind, trading is a young person's game. Unlimited upside with "only" the fear of getting canned doesn't seem like much of a trade off at When you're 35 and have other people depending on you to provide, your priorities inevitably change. At some point, the question ultimately get's raised, how much is enough OR is this job really for me?
If you're running money for others, these questions get raised alot sooner. I remember reading somewhere someone comparing this industry to professional sports. Very few ever attain the highest level of performance and those that do can only stay on top for short periods of time.
People accustomed to winning all the time simply choose not to play when their luck changes. This is the prop trading equivalent of the ibanking rank the bank threads. I really think you need to separate the rankings by product because you cant compare equities to equity options. I am very pleased to see the prop traders on wso starting to come forward and contribute more.
I didn't realize people consider Optiver to be such a strong firm. The turnover at the firm is insane. I'd equate it to dig a hole, fill it with water, add sharks, and throw in new hires, promote those who survive, repeat until you have a senior trader. But then again, if you are a good enough, quick enough trader and lucky to some extent, of course it is the right firm for you. I received multiple PM's and I want to address all of the questions, but if you have a generic question, I ask that you post it on this thread so it can be answered for everyone to see.
How is G1 regarded among traders? Is it a good firm to start a trading career? Group One is a legitimate firm. They are mediocre in comparison to the rest on my list which is why they aren't on the list , and they aren't the best at what they do in comparison to their rivals. Given the market environment, I believe they would be a good place to start. I believe they still operate on the floor and I'm uncertain of any plans for them to move upstairs.
Yes, it is possible to start off at one of these firms and later trade at either an IB or a HF. Traders that start at prop firms generally don't go to IB's, because if they are successful, wouldn't make sense to do so. Traders at IB's are generally different types of people and different personalities than traders at prop firms. This whole mentality that IB's are the best place to work will soon change after people realize that compensation at IB's has dramatically decreased.
I know many traders including myself who are currently trading at prop firms while getting their MBA's and being recruited by HF's. Trading at a HF doesn't guarantee more money by any means. I decided to pursue higher education for the sheer learning aspect of it, to make me a better trader and to broaden my understanding of quantitative financial concepts. It was also convenient for me since I'm doing it part time.
Many traders tend to want to NOT jump to HF's because of the added stress and uncertain future of the industry. Why is everyone saying a trader can only last about 10 years? You won't know if this is something you want to do for 30 years or not until you actually start doing it. You will need lasting commitment and passion for your work - two very rare qualities that may fade over time. See Trig's response to this as well. What about, say, after 3 years?
Compensation is modest in the early years. I wouldn't focus on this though, as it is more important to focus on being successful so that you're still trading in 5 or 10 years down the road, where your compensation will literally be unlimited.
Senior traders at my firm make 8 figures a year easily. Depends on what you want to trade. You really can't go wrong with any of the firms on that list. The only thing that will perhaps knock you off the path of being successful is if you are trading a product which doesn't interest you. It is important to be happy where you're working too, so make sure you like the people at the firm. Very few have the stamina to stay fully committed. You need to have a passion for whatever it is that you do in life in order to be successful at it.
The best firms are market makers. Market making is much much much more legitimate than directional trading, because the market making firms have proprietary strategies that have an edge. You are right in saying you can't compare equities to equity options. The intellect it requires to day trade equities is minimal. Firms that are successful trading equities are firm that know how to correctly hedge as well, meaning fundamentally driven hedge funds.
With the exception of First New York Securites since they use derivatives to hedge, and also trade options, fx, rates, commodities, and equities, which essentially makes them a multi-strat hedge fund , I don't think equity day trading is a good long term career move. Most of these equity trading firms are also the same firms that offer minimal salary or no salary at all, and it is best to pursue careers at firms that are willing to train you and offer a reasonable base salary. Obviously, given market conditions, many will have to end up at these firms as a last resort, so I would say it is certainly a completely different ball game.
I didn't mean to pick on you, and as it was stated above, it is good to get a list of names down on paper to assess many of the best firms. But there is no sense in ranking these firms when you don't know much about them, or whatever little you may know based off of an interview or competitiveness.
Firms are judged by 1 thing only, and this includes prop firms, HF's and IB's. That 1 thing is performance, plain and simple. The best performing firms have a global presence and have been around for a long time in my opinion above 10 years.
These firms will produce the best returns most consistently. Since prop firms don't disclose returns, it is tough to rank them unless you know a lot about them or have worked at multiple firms. Optiver is a very good firm. Every firm on the list is a very good firm but just trades slightly different strategies or slightly different areas and products.
Also keep in mind that every firm on that list has a high turnover rate, meaning many new people are dropped after about a year or so into the job. This is in part due to poor performance by the new traders or perhaps some sort of realization that trading isn't for everyone. Firms will only keep the best of the best. The only attrition rate that you should be worried about is your own attrition rate. If you are someone that can't make it in the industry, then you will get cut.
Infinium Capital Management 3. Chicago Trading Company 7. Tower Hill Trading ". And this is based off of what? Like most on this website, I think you are a college student and don't know what you're talking about. You also have two number 3's and no number 8. Once again, I don't mean to pick on you and I just don't think it makes sense to rank the firms based off of the little knowledge you have about the industry. Ok, so I had a typo in my list. Chicago Trading Company 8.
I am making my decision based on the people I know who work at some of these firms. This list is my opinion and others can think whatever they wish. So if we were to constuct a list of prop firms with offices in NY that are not qaunt shops and not bucket shops what do we have.
Thank you trader joe, this is by far the best prop trading post on wso. I have a question for you of my own. Why is it that these prop shops are dominantly equity options. As far as regular equity ranking First New York and Trillium are the standouts with few if any peers.
The rest are mostly chop shops. Within equity there are a lot of small prop shops which are closer to small hedge funds. I know of a couple that do not recruit, and are virtually unknown to the public.
For those of you that speak with me you know which firms I am talking about. I wouldn't say these shops are dominantly equity options. Some trade commodities options. Some trade eurodollar options. Some deploy quantitative models to trade statistical arbitrage. And some trade equities. I wouldn't call Trillium a stand out firm or put it in the same peer level as First New York. If you want to trade equities, there are many routes you can take I would be targeting technical analyst or strategist positions at IB's.
Firms that "scalp" which is very very short term trading are usually day trading firms and not very good long term career choices. I have found a few threads on wilmott and elitetrader that are very pessimistic. They argue that things are decent now but the spreads are narrowing significantly and starting to kill profits margins thanks to computers.
I'd say it is safe to say the list is certainly not set in stone, but this will give many people an idea of which firms have winning business models and are worth working for. I am a recently college grad and I applied to First New York after reading Sept issue of Trader monthly and the 30 under 30 list.
FNY seemed to be one of the best trading firms out there based on this reading. Furthermore, looking at their website, the training program looks very legit. I now have an offer there and am contemplating leaving my job at a BB where I do sales. I am looking for a high risk high reward career in trading with the largest potential payout and the article on Adam Guren and David Bender was very inspiring as they are now partners in the late 20s.
Just FYI, being a partner at a prop firm isn't like being a partner at, say, a law firm. Most, if not all, great prop firms allow their traders to be payed K At my firm, you put in a full calendar year and then are eligible to become a partner. For example, I graduated in May and started working at Trillium in late August.
In January , I will become eligible to be a partner of the firm I'll be 23 at that time. It's just a tax structure of the company that benefits traders the most. No social security taxes, basically unlimited trading writeoffs, etc. Don Bright, of Bright Trading, has posts about K-1 status and its benefits on EliteTrader if you're interested though I'm not advocating for Bright Trading as a great firm btw lol.
Hi, if anyone could offer advice on choosing between Optiver trading and Spot Trading I would much appreciate it. What's the starting salary for assistant trader position at Jane Street Capital? What about other firms like Spot Trading , Optiver , and Ronin? They are recruiting heavily at my school and was wondering if anybody had any opinions? Not familiar with either of those firms. There are a bunch of small firms which keep a very low profile by choice or not.
For example, at my school we had a firm called Sun Trading which didn't even have a working website not necessarily a bad thing. It's really up to you during the interviews to really get an idea of what you'll probably be pulling in a few years down the road. Ask them questions about where college hires are, how much size they are trading , the employee turnover, percent of hires which are from college vs.
It's very hard to get a good idea of how legit these firms are without seeing a performance sheet, but make sure you know how you're gonna go about pulling in money at the firm, either through the firm's huge technology advantage, etc. Any money you make the first two years will be meaningless so keep that in mind. I'm going through my offers and other interviews and I'm interested in what you guys think of Geneva Trading, Black Diamond Futures, and Marquette Trading.
Any info would be appreciated. BTW, this is one of the most useful threads I've read on the subject and really enjoy hearing about your experiences esp. I am currently a senior at Michigan State University and have recently added an entrepreneurship minor. As a result of this I am graduating a semester later than normal in December As a result of this I have been looking for internships in Chicago for this summer to get a leg up on the competition when it comes to interviewing for a trader position.
I have had a year long internship at Raymond James and Associates and another internship this past summer at Wachovia Securities.
From these jobs I have realized I do not want to be an investment advisor and would like to become some sort of derivative trader.
I have a recruiter working for me in Chicago that hasn't found any opportunities. I have a great GPA and great resume but have had terrible luck. Wolverine turned me down for their internship openings because I didn't have programing skills or something.
I passed the Group One pre-screening questionnaire and was scheduled for a phone interview today at 3: I left her a message and of course haven't heard back. I guess I have a couple questions:. Some of these firms are just market makers which have lots of restrictions on the trading style. I want to know about the firms which provide you the capital and more freedom to trade on your own, any??? To my knowledge there are very few firms which will pay you a competitive salary and provide you with capital to just trade markets directionally.
First New York is the only one that I know bottom line pays you well do use your judgment, but the leash is very short in terms of drawdown. Of course there are the banks and even then, that is an institutional style, and those desks that are directional are getting more scoff than ever recently.
The truth is, if you can make money using "your own style", then you shouldn't need a firm to do so, and having one will only reduce your PnL. But I would argue that those who make money on direction are merely getting it from beta and the only alpha is edge obtained by market making , arb, and the like. Anyone know how Schonfeld Securities ranks with these firms? Are they seen more as a "trading arcade" or pretty legit?
Any help is appreciated. Just echoing what others have said, but this is an amazing thread. Thanks to all who have contributed. THT is a risk considering they pay a draw rather than a salary. THT is a decent shop - but you should note that they have a very high turnover rate and they have been letting a lot of their current traders go lately.
They also pay a 2k draw that you have to qualify for, and if you have a negative month, you won't qualify for it. The way the markets have been lately very volatile has definitely affected a lot of speculative traders in both positive and negative lights.
The way they trade is very very short term scalping - they hold positions for seconds to minutes. They also don't hedge positions. You could make a fortune or go broke very quickly. Additionally, you won't make much money at THT during the first 2 years you'll be lucky to be breaking even on a cash-flow basis , but the 3rd year traders at THT those that survive and make it to 3rd years, that is make about k on average. You are correct about the turnover.
When they were a new shop, they gave new traders much, much more leeway in regards to losses. I know for awhile they had some weird delay on it, but I don't believe it's that way any more. I have never heard of the draw being withheld due to a negative month. What percentage of new traders are positive their first months Yes, guys there start out scalping, however there are guys that do other stuff.
Once trainees can scalp and learn execution, they allow them to swing bigger. It's not at all uncommon for traders to hold overnight. There's different groups of guys around the floor that trade other types of strategies.
Most of the people there are out the door before they make any decent money. If you're looking for a place to teach you systematic, complicated equity strategies, you'll be disappointed with THT. It's very much a sink or swim, individualistic type of place. I worked as a IB prop trader for many years, and now I work for a hedge fund. I am very intrigued by the meritocracy offered by prop trading shops based on what I've read primarily on this site.
However, my focus is currencies, mostly G I hold positions for about 4 days on average. I have a very strong track record again, thankfully. Are there any prop firms out there that would have a look at what I do? I am very willing to take next to nothing in the form of a draw. I just would like to get paid a healthy percentage of what I make. I interviewed with CTC, and I am looking for either a prop firm or market making firm that pays a base salary in Chicago.
I don't have any capital of my own to contribute, coming out of school, so I'm looking for somewhere where I can learn the first year and then be able to trade on my own afterwards. What do you guys think are the best firms for this? I'm really interested in getting into trading , so any information you might have would be extremely helpful.
I've emailed just about all of the firms on these lists One firm that hasn't been mentioned that pays very well, is a major player in equity markets and is well capitalized is Getco trading.
I've heard of salaries being near k for first year analysts. But I agree that you should look at the firms culture first and foremost between the legit shops. I think it was RossGellar who said trade something you have interest in.
My big thing is futures as opposed to equities just now learning about options. Any firm recommendations for those arenas? I found a comprehensive list of prop firms here:. I have second round interview with DRW. How do they pay and what kind of work do they do? Do they do only options on different things like Eurodollar, commodities and equities. I am also concerned by the fact that people here are pessimistic about opportunities after working with DRW.
Will you be employable by hedge funds after working with DRW? Why are you asking about exit opps for a potential full time job when you're applying for a summer internship that you haven't even gotten yet? There seems to be some disagreement on Group One, yet it didn't make it into either Ross or trade4size's top Care to give a low down on them please?
Curious chimps want to know. I am trying to decide between two internship offers and would appreciate any opinions on the aforementioned firms in the context of algo trading. About Lion Pride is it any good? Any traders here currently trading with them?
But I have read that they had some problems and did not pay their traders when they changed from golden to world trade?
I've seen various lists for the larger and medium-sized trading firms in Chicago, but where can learn about the smaller outfits. The really small shops with people?
Or is there really no way to learn about these small firms unless you actually no someone in them? Spot on by fillorkill- I'll add that students are recognizing the progression though.
You know, the show with Tim Sykes. Apart from an association with Tim Sykes and the fact that they recruit on craigslist, the firm is what it is. It doesn't have the business model to become a top prop firm, and I don't think that is the founders' intentions. There was a thread a while ago on SMB, and one of the partners came on in defense of it. You should search for it. He seemed extremely logical, and defend SMB as something it's not.
With that said, I'm assuming that their trader turn over rate is rather high, even for the prop industry. SMB has a recruitment video on Wall Street warriors: Can anyone share any Prop Trading recruiter names or guide me to an appropriate forum. A pragmatic approach to answering questions as to what makes these firms unique would be to ask someone who knows, and not resort to a blog where people talk about what they have heard or experienced in an interview.
This is not an accurate representation of these groups. I am actively representing, or have in the recent past, 9 of the firms listed. In my role, I also talk to Sr. Feel free to reach out if you would like to discuss what is really going on in the Proprietary trading space. For the last 2. It's too small to be on any of the lists above. I work as a "connectivity developer": I write programs that provide market data and manage orders; my programs sit between the trading logic and the exchanges.
That is how I stumbled on this thread. In my opinion, my current workplace is a sweatshop. It was founded by guys who used to work at Citadel. I came from a huge manufacturing company where I worked five years as a developer. The respective cultures are a night and day difference.
There are obvious differences: But it's the "attitude" of the company I struggle with: I want to do a good job, I want to learn about the business, and I'm willing to work hard. But I have too many other interests and a family!
The other aspect that was a culture shock is the secrecy of the business. Despite our small size, many details of the business are completely closed to me.
I never received anything in the way of training, mentoring or coaching. It's a very "siloed" environment, and frankly, I feel my skills as a software engineer are stagnating because I have no one to learn from, no room to experiment with new ideas, etc. In short, I'm looking for work-life balance and better growth opportunities where the company actively participates in my learning and development.
I'm just trying to find out if my firm as I've described it is truly indicative of the industry as a whole, or if there are firms that recognize employees can be great contributors and maintain a sane work-life balance?
Any thoughts or comments would be appreciated. Just note that my position is a little difference from most all? According to what you've described, a high-frequency shop would be more appropriate for you. They care so much about new technologies. Only way to find out is to ask. I am a recruiter and I have really enjoyed this thread. Just to clarify something: Some of these houses are traditional prop and some are pure quant trading firms. They are very different in the people that they typically hire, the type of compensation, the firm culture, etc.
The good Options Market Making firms are more aligned with quant trading than traditional prop. Here are some more firms that are in the space, to aid in this discuss. If you have any questions, put them in the thread or drop me an email:.
Large Systematic Options Marketing Platforms: I am a undergrad student and will be interviewing with Worldquant later this month.
I could not get a lot of information about the firm from internet. Can you give me some idea of how the firm culture is? Is it a good place to be beginning your career versus say in Global Markets for barclays? Sold out and cashed in on the intellectual ballerness of a physics education and a scientific mindset. That and some well developed poker skill will hopefully bring good EV.
This has been a very interesting read. I'm considering a move into the industry, and I'd be curious to get input from current traders on a few things. First, a bit about my background and circumstances. I'm about 6 years out of undergrad. I have degrees in both Accounting and Finance. I worked in public accounting for the first 3 years, have my CPA. For the last three years I've been in-house corporate doing IT Audit. Without patting myself on the back too hard, I'm way smarter than the work that I do, and while I've been successful at minimzing the amount of work I've had to do to maximize the pay, I've finally hit that ceiling AND I'm bored to the point where I want to fling myself off the nearest balcony.
I want to work in a smaller, casual team environment, with brilliant people. I need to be challenged. I know people in Chicago at a few of the firms listed here, and I know they make pretty retarded amounts of money. That's definitely appealing, but my primary motive is the challenge and working with people that are smart. I'd be perfectly content making k long-term if I enjoy it.
The fact that I could make k or more is just icing, I don't even know what I'd do with that much cash. It sounds like a lot of people get weeded out early on? What about them makes them fail, generally? How Does Marquette Partners Factor into these rankings? If they do not does anyone have any colour around their training program and or firm? You are forgetting one - Chopper Trading. I would rank Chopper Trading as one of the top proprietary trading companies in Chicago and New York.
They have a great company atmosphere and very competitive compensations structures. Chopper Trading is rapidly growing and many people have found success there. How does it compare to the "top shops" mentioned here? Chopper Trading sucks, period. I'd say this is somewhat accurate.
Also, in the world of prop, your PnL is your prestige. If I was just starting out, a job at the bigger firms will help you way more in the future I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Chimera Securities here yet.
Any thoughts on them? This is a good thread I am with a large chicago market making group and have never heard of chimera You will find them all to have full time teachers and many things offered I have no idea why people rank it as number one when, clearly it is not. Also, wise word here, if you ever get a chance to pick btw let's say janestreet and GS or jp morgan or any other bigger house , it would only be in your own best interest to pick GS or JP Morgan or whatever else that is bigger and more reputable The big giants have been in the business for years and know how to cope not only with interns but also with incoming analysts A friend of mine is currently working for JaneStreet and he admittingly regrets having picked it over GS.
Of course, he is smart. He regrets for a variety of reasons that are not directly linked with pay but soon will. The leadership potential, the degree of expertise as well as the range of experience found at GS is by all means unrivaled. For example, you don't wanna be taught or trained by someone who "is smart" but you wanna be trained by someone who is "stellar", rite?
It just adds to thrill, excitement, and inspiration. While Jane Street might be full of "smart" to "very smart" traders and quants, it is no where in the league of GS. GS might have the "average smart" that drags down the overall average but it also has the "brilliant ones". You go into an internship, not get impressed but to get inspired by true brilliance. And if you are going to argue that comparing a prop shop to an IB or BB is like comparing oranges wth strawberries, don't be foolish You're being sarcastic right?
And I'm not pulling shit out of my ass either because I'm a senior at one of the firms that you've mentioned. Whereas you have a sample data point of one friend, I have met majority of new hires on the desks and know many traders personally. From a recruiting perspective, we lose a majority of the academically "brilliant" kids to prop every year.
And all-stars on the desks usually defect to hedge funds, prop shops, or start funds of their own. Lets get real here. Nobody gives a shit who you work for as a trader as long as you make a shitload of money. Do you really think a prop guy pulling in seven-eight figures a year cares about the reputation of the firm that he works for? I doubt these guys are going to switching jobs soon. I also know a handful of people over at JS who are junior-senior traders since we're talking about random samples, correct?
Lastly, you make me laugh. Your only inspiration is to make money. Lastly lastly, please refer to front page thread about writing on internet forums like this one. Thank you, and good day. And clearly you are not working at the front desk of a top tier bb I cannot help if you compare a back office job with a front office one. You gotta get this cleared out. It is highly unlikely that a failure at a prop shop lands a well-paid position in BB, the reverse might be more likely though.
So, it make sense to start your luck and fortune at BB and then work your way either ways My friend tried to re-interview with GS.
So, he is probably the exception If you want a cool and "laid back" environment that is not pretentious, then obviously go for " Hudson River Trading. They have some odd characters and many failed scientists who didn't make it in academia ended up at the company. I got my fair share of experience in dealing with JS and SIG, etc prop shop people and know that they are smart but I have not met a single guy there who is brilliant.
We are talking about Vardhan calibre here I feel sorry for you as you clearly work for a 2 tier bb What about Belvedere Trading? It pays salary, which is nice. It's smallish but growing a lot. It is a great place filled with very smart people. That said, every firm is a distribution. JSC probably has a higher average of intelligence than other firms, but a firm like GS has a more wide distribution since it has more people obviously.
I do understand the general essence of what you're trying to emphasize, yet I fail to understand how number crunching skills automatically translates to higher intelligence. One of my good friends is at Citadel , recently removed from the old Merrill , and considers the prop desk there far more conducive to the work of good traders than most of the other shops.
They are doing quite well for themselves this year apparently Nothing wrong with Belvedere--a lot of people from my school work there and do very well for themselves. Most probably won't make it their first choice and it isn't a top shop, but it isn't bad.
There is too little substance in what is talked about around in what is a 'good' shop and most of it relates to the salary paid to first years Discussion in ' Prop Firms ' started by infiniwang , Aug 2, Log in or Sign up. Informal ranking of Chicago prop firms Discussion in ' Prop Firms ' started by infiniwang , Aug 2, I'm trying to get a clearer picture of some firms in Chicago.
I just don't understand the landscape in Chicago, and Google proves to be useless. I found some employee home pages, but they're college kids who blog more about their escapades in Africa or World of Warcraft than anything about the prop-scape.
Anyone care to rank the following firms in terms of best places to work for and best places to make money? Tower Hill Trading is by far the best.
We might not have the best rates but I am sure those rates you hear about don't really exist. Not many good trading firms here in Chicago but plenty of great traders. Six of us trade out of a nice office on State. Have been here for 3 years. Make you own way and tell the prop firms to "take a hike". Any others you guys know about besides the ones listed?? I am sorry, but I couldn't resist.
As a former academic myself handful of journal publications to my name, and most not related to finance , I am curious to what your actual academic background is. What's your area of mathematical research? Your posts has been remarkably lacking in any intellectual depth and analytical abilities. Instead, you just want to "jump" to some easy conclusion, without any rigorous kind of "background research", and formulating a methodology.
In fact, since you are still a student, doing a SCI search on the firm names you mentioned, would be an excellent way to get an idea of what kind of problems they are abstracting out. I apologize if this seems insulting in advance.
Forex trading firms in chicago – wall street virtual stock exchange
Listing of Proprietary Trading Firms. Akuna Capital Akuna Capital is a fast-growing boutique trading house that specializes in derivative market-making and arbitrage. (Chicago) Aldersgate Trading Aldersgate Trading Ltd is a proprietary trading firm specialising in the facilitation, development and management of financial derivative . Forex trading firms in chicago – wall street virtual stock exchange. Whatever lawyers consumers back willing the, consumers done for more coffee label fair are say but Dreiers forex trading firms in chicago they, can bail of by coffee higher, trade, most flavor actually the package with hereby a, be would to, after brand concerned proposed pay. Nov 04, · I'm curious to hear how everyone would rank the top prop trading firms. I've focused the post on firms in Chicago because that is where most of them are. Here is how I've ranked them: 1. Spot Trading 2. Jump Trading 3. DRW Trading 4. Optiver 5. TransMarket Group 6. Peak6 Investments 7. Chicago Trading Company 8. Infinium .